Hey Lenny,
Thanks for the excellent input.
Anarcho-syndicalism is a good theory with the exception that to realize the goals of humanity, quality of life, and sustainability, we will have to also change the way that resources are allocated within and among economic sectors. To realize these goals and the very very important additional goal of equity, we will have to change the way that resources are allocated to and within communities. (In other words, the "social rearrangement" (notice I didn't use the word "engineering") needs to extend beyond the workplace, also into our communities.
It is true that Capitalists co-opted the participatory management trend that started in Europe (probably most accurately Eastern Europe (my study of Comparative Economic Systems in the 70's suggested to me that the Yugoslavs had progressed the furthest towards developing true economic democracies in the workplace)). A fundamental world-wide paradigm shift from competition to cooperation, along with removing the profit-taking of Capitalism, would go a long way towards relaxing the tension with regards to the requisite expedience in decision-making that co-opts even genuine attempts (if there were any) of Capitalists to implement participatory management operations.
Wednesday, June 3, 2009
I Wonder What Dino is Doing Now?
Personal politics, which seem to trouble Leftists greatly, may have played a very minor role in the reason that Marxist/Socialist/Communist (call it what you may and that is a major source of contention among) never was realized, but the real reason that Leftist politics never took hold in (once Great) Britain, and in the United States is because such were the Centers of Capitalist Empire. These are two leviathan exploiter cultures, with their Fascist Military backing (or should I say leadership?). You all still have a "royal family" and Obama in the tradition of the Imperialist Presidency chose the pomp of meeting with the Saudi Kings as his first stop in his mission "to make peace with the Moslem world".
The Brits and the Yanks have been the two biggest imperialists, perhaps in the history of man, and they have done it mostly under the banner of Capitalism. The spoils of the rape, plunder, pillage, murder, steal, and exploit Capitalist and colonial systems do trickle down within the empire(s) at least for a time. The military elite, the yeomanry, the artisans of the Imperialist nations were enriched by the slavery and exploitation of foreigners and through nationalistic favoritism and patronage to countrymen, through hard work, and through educational opportunities, some workers (those that were not military and/or industrial fodder) were able to struggle to obtain "middle class" status by climbing an opportunity ladder that was available within the racist circles of Capitalist Empire.
Time has, and increasingly is, seeing these perks of Nationalism wither away as Capitalism took its act worldwide, embraced an International Capitalist ruling class and culture and pitted workers in all countries in a race to the bottom for the crumbs of low-wage Capitalist jobs. Capitalists empire did not abandon their nationalist propaganda, however, in case they need help in rallying public support for the myriad of their worldwide crimes and for the much reduced staffing needs of their robotic, electronically assisted, high-powered genocidal military machines. Thus, it leaves many in a state of dumb-downed confusion, because they don't have the channels or the teachers to learn the truth fast enough to figure it out. The propagandist culture drones on with the falsehoods as the people of the planet roll at an accelerating pace toward extinction fueled by that quirk called the fossil fuel age and that ridiculously extravagant, opulent, ostentatious squandering invention, the automobile. They don't want to know. I don't know what it is like in (once Great) Britain, but here in the USA, they think freedom is freedom from responsibility, freedom from thinking. They've got it so drilled into their feeble lttle brains that "we are the greatest nation of all time" and that translates into a right to possess, threaten with, and use WMD for WMD (Weapons of Mass Destruction for World Manifest Destiny) and to use those precious fossil fuels at an unconscious genocidal, ecocidal, and suicidal speed.
And the daily mantra is that the economy will be, even is, recovering.
But socialism is nothing more than an ideology. It is not an alternative. Socialists, the few that still exist, are too simple minded. Socialism/Communism/Anarchism are religions. We will have some virtual revolution, after which everything will magically coalesce into a moneyless utopian paradise.
I have been a Communist since reading the Communist Manifesto when I was sixteen. When talking with a working class buddy about it, he nodded in agreement, but said, (rubbing his thumbs across his fingers) "Money talks, bullshit walks".
I wonder what Dino is doing now?
The Brits and the Yanks have been the two biggest imperialists, perhaps in the history of man, and they have done it mostly under the banner of Capitalism. The spoils of the rape, plunder, pillage, murder, steal, and exploit Capitalist and colonial systems do trickle down within the empire(s) at least for a time. The military elite, the yeomanry, the artisans of the Imperialist nations were enriched by the slavery and exploitation of foreigners and through nationalistic favoritism and patronage to countrymen, through hard work, and through educational opportunities, some workers (those that were not military and/or industrial fodder) were able to struggle to obtain "middle class" status by climbing an opportunity ladder that was available within the racist circles of Capitalist Empire.
Time has, and increasingly is, seeing these perks of Nationalism wither away as Capitalism took its act worldwide, embraced an International Capitalist ruling class and culture and pitted workers in all countries in a race to the bottom for the crumbs of low-wage Capitalist jobs. Capitalists empire did not abandon their nationalist propaganda, however, in case they need help in rallying public support for the myriad of their worldwide crimes and for the much reduced staffing needs of their robotic, electronically assisted, high-powered genocidal military machines. Thus, it leaves many in a state of dumb-downed confusion, because they don't have the channels or the teachers to learn the truth fast enough to figure it out. The propagandist culture drones on with the falsehoods as the people of the planet roll at an accelerating pace toward extinction fueled by that quirk called the fossil fuel age and that ridiculously extravagant, opulent, ostentatious squandering invention, the automobile. They don't want to know. I don't know what it is like in (once Great) Britain, but here in the USA, they think freedom is freedom from responsibility, freedom from thinking. They've got it so drilled into their feeble lttle brains that "we are the greatest nation of all time" and that translates into a right to possess, threaten with, and use WMD for WMD (Weapons of Mass Destruction for World Manifest Destiny) and to use those precious fossil fuels at an unconscious genocidal, ecocidal, and suicidal speed.
And the daily mantra is that the economy will be, even is, recovering.
But socialism is nothing more than an ideology. It is not an alternative. Socialists, the few that still exist, are too simple minded. Socialism/Communism/Anarchism are religions. We will have some virtual revolution, after which everything will magically coalesce into a moneyless utopian paradise.
I have been a Communist since reading the Communist Manifesto when I was sixteen. When talking with a working class buddy about it, he nodded in agreement, but said, (rubbing his thumbs across his fingers) "Money talks, bullshit walks".
I wonder what Dino is doing now?
Tuesday, June 2, 2009
Socialist "Business" Schools?
Marquito,
We have discussed to the point of moot whether or not there are or ever will be socialist "societies" or economies.
Before answering your reactionary supposition, let me ask you:
1.) Are there any societies/economies in the real world that would qualify, or at least partially qualify, according to you, as "socialist"?
2.) If so, what do you know about their educational systems?
I will concede that within a socialist economy, we would probably not call anything "business school". A better name for it, perhaps, would be "socialist economic operations" and in the ideal world, from an early age there would be a great deal of overlap and continuity between work experience, work study, home study and classroom learning.
When we are talking or writing about transitioning from a Capitalist economy to a socialist one, let me tell you ( I have a MBA degree, as well as study in Environmental Studies, Regional and Resource Planning, and Economics, (and much work experience)) that I have found all my education (and experience), including much of which is self-study and learning from others, like you, to be very helpful in being able to conceptualize and communicate a transitional path from Capitalism to socialism.
My response to zE was because he did not seem to understand or want to be bothered with details of economic entity operations which would be necessary to implement a socialist economy. I was not suggesting to him that he need be, to function in a socialist economy, if we could ever get one functioning. I was speaking to my perceived need, as I am surrounded by Capitalists, for the need for more socialists who understand the organizational and logistical problems related to operating economic entities. I suggested "Business School" (while keeping his socialist priorities) because that is what is currently available (and most directly pertinent to economic operations entities in the desired socialist world) in the Capitalist world.
I hope that I have clarified my statement, and thank you for presenting the challenge which has allowed me to elucidate.
Mike Morin
Peoples' Equity Union
We have discussed to the point of moot whether or not there are or ever will be socialist "societies" or economies.
Before answering your reactionary supposition, let me ask you:
1.) Are there any societies/economies in the real world that would qualify, or at least partially qualify, according to you, as "socialist"?
2.) If so, what do you know about their educational systems?
I will concede that within a socialist economy, we would probably not call anything "business school". A better name for it, perhaps, would be "socialist economic operations" and in the ideal world, from an early age there would be a great deal of overlap and continuity between work experience, work study, home study and classroom learning.
When we are talking or writing about transitioning from a Capitalist economy to a socialist one, let me tell you ( I have a MBA degree, as well as study in Environmental Studies, Regional and Resource Planning, and Economics, (and much work experience)) that I have found all my education (and experience), including much of which is self-study and learning from others, like you, to be very helpful in being able to conceptualize and communicate a transitional path from Capitalism to socialism.
My response to zE was because he did not seem to understand or want to be bothered with details of economic entity operations which would be necessary to implement a socialist economy. I was not suggesting to him that he need be, to function in a socialist economy, if we could ever get one functioning. I was speaking to my perceived need, as I am surrounded by Capitalists, for the need for more socialists who understand the organizational and logistical problems related to operating economic entities. I suggested "Business School" (while keeping his socialist priorities) because that is what is currently available (and most directly pertinent to economic operations entities in the desired socialist world) in the Capitalist world.
I hope that I have clarified my statement, and thank you for presenting the challenge which has allowed me to elucidate.
Mike Morin
Peoples' Equity Union
A Socialist Alternative
Robert Howes wrote:
Lenny, I think we are at cross purposes. what I was saying was analogous. I was saying, not very well obviously, that successful groups will thrive and go on to spawn more and similar groups, whereas unsuccessful groups will break up.
***
Capitalism is a successful group in that sense, so to replace it we need to start equally or more successful groups. Trying to take over the group is dangerous in the extreme. It could so easily all go wrong.
Cheers,
Bob
***************************************************
Mike Morin replies:
I concur with Robert, completely.
I would like to add that although Capitalism has been successful (for a minority?), it has reached the end of its useful life. Any additional success realized by the Capitalist Economic system will continue to reward a decreasingly few and cause increasing hardship and stress on the many and the resources of the planet, and extinct hope for the youth and children.
But Robert is correct, if we want to replace Capitalism then it is imperative that we begin immediately to chart a successful economic alternative, a socialist economic democracy that is based on local autonomy and includes inter-community/inter-regional/ and worldwide solidarity and cooperation with respect to resource allocation policies (how resources will be allocated to and within communities and within and among economic sectors), inter-regional and inter-community economic and social relations, and clarity of a mission that includes peace, equity, inclusion, humanity, quality of life, and sustainability.
Mike Morin
Peoples' Equity Union
Lenny, I think we are at cross purposes. what I was saying was analogous. I was saying, not very well obviously, that successful groups will thrive and go on to spawn more and similar groups, whereas unsuccessful groups will break up.
***
Capitalism is a successful group in that sense, so to replace it we need to start equally or more successful groups. Trying to take over the group is dangerous in the extreme. It could so easily all go wrong.
Cheers,
Bob
***************************************************
Mike Morin replies:
I concur with Robert, completely.
I would like to add that although Capitalism has been successful (for a minority?), it has reached the end of its useful life. Any additional success realized by the Capitalist Economic system will continue to reward a decreasingly few and cause increasing hardship and stress on the many and the resources of the planet, and extinct hope for the youth and children.
But Robert is correct, if we want to replace Capitalism then it is imperative that we begin immediately to chart a successful economic alternative, a socialist economic democracy that is based on local autonomy and includes inter-community/inter-regional/ and worldwide solidarity and cooperation with respect to resource allocation policies (how resources will be allocated to and within communities and within and among economic sectors), inter-regional and inter-community economic and social relations, and clarity of a mission that includes peace, equity, inclusion, humanity, quality of life, and sustainability.
Mike Morin
Peoples' Equity Union
Continuing with the Plan to Implement a Peoples' Equity Union
Robert (et al),
Do you live in a city, a town, a village, a rural area?
Is there a credit union in the vicinity?
You need to establish a local board with an economic plan for your neighborhood. The economic plan could be very similar to the way the Mondragon Cooperative Society operates. You need to establish a local Board of Directors, a company (equity union) charter and by-laws, including the criteria how economic decisions will be made from funds allocated, and how decisions will be made regarding the investment of surpluses made from business operations.
Remember, it is important that we inculcate the principles of economic democracy in every thing that we do, say, think, and communicate.
Create a Peoples' Equity Union Trust Fund in your local credit union.
After you have done that, and I receive the payment of $30 billion, I will deposit $20 million in your Trust Fund Account. Then it will be up to you and your colleagues to develop and share your local socialist equity union economy. When you have met the needs of your community, and have achieved an equitable, sustainable, inclusive, and humane quality of life among all neighbors, then it will be incumbent upon you (the denizens of your community and the Board of the Peoples' Equity Union Branch) to identify other communities with which you see a need and desire to share your socialist success with. As you are organizing your neighbors and developing your commune, you very much want to be establishing relationships, personal, social and economic with neighborhing communities, and communities worldwide, thereby furthering the cooperative nature, organization, and operations of the Peoples' Equity Union's neighborhood/inter-community/inter-regional and world wide socialist ecological economic plan.
The prospects of receiving funding are dependent upon potential participants understanding the mission and the modus operandi of the Plan.
Do you understand thus far, and could you cooperate given that funding was imminent?
Mike Morin
Peoples' Equity Union
Do you live in a city, a town, a village, a rural area?
Is there a credit union in the vicinity?
You need to establish a local board with an economic plan for your neighborhood. The economic plan could be very similar to the way the Mondragon Cooperative Society operates. You need to establish a local Board of Directors, a company (equity union) charter and by-laws, including the criteria how economic decisions will be made from funds allocated, and how decisions will be made regarding the investment of surpluses made from business operations.
Remember, it is important that we inculcate the principles of economic democracy in every thing that we do, say, think, and communicate.
Create a Peoples' Equity Union Trust Fund in your local credit union.
After you have done that, and I receive the payment of $30 billion, I will deposit $20 million in your Trust Fund Account. Then it will be up to you and your colleagues to develop and share your local socialist equity union economy. When you have met the needs of your community, and have achieved an equitable, sustainable, inclusive, and humane quality of life among all neighbors, then it will be incumbent upon you (the denizens of your community and the Board of the Peoples' Equity Union Branch) to identify other communities with which you see a need and desire to share your socialist success with. As you are organizing your neighbors and developing your commune, you very much want to be establishing relationships, personal, social and economic with neighborhing communities, and communities worldwide, thereby furthering the cooperative nature, organization, and operations of the Peoples' Equity Union's neighborhood/inter-community/inter-regional and world wide socialist ecological economic plan.
The prospects of receiving funding are dependent upon potential participants understanding the mission and the modus operandi of the Plan.
Do you understand thus far, and could you cooperate given that funding was imminent?
Mike Morin
Peoples' Equity Union
Monday, June 1, 2009
What If?
(If) I just got an e-mail from Obama.
He has seen the light. Instead of investing $30 billion of government funds in GM, which is destined to fail, Barack has promised us thirty billion for the Peoples' Equity Union, with a promise of more (unspecified - but drawn from TARP) to come and the word that he is working with other members of the G20 and the less developed nations to negotiate funding in their regions.
I want each of you to assume a position as Board Member on the Worldwide PEU and as Chair for your local community. What do you suggest that we do with the $30 billion?
Equity means ownership. it also means equality. The Treasuries (eventually to be one unified world treasury) have recognized that the ownership of assets/resources belongs in the hands of the poor and the workers. The Treasuries have decided to undertake a massive program at rebuilding communities so that all have a quality of life and ownership of their abodes and place of work and humane, sustainable occupations and lives. They have recognized that labor and natural resources are the source of all wealth and that there has been a historical record of Capitalist thievery that must be wiped cleaned and atoned for.
What would you offer to the workers and the poor? How would you assure that the $30 billion dollars, and additional funds to come, would be sustained and shared (developed, if you will, to produce a surplus that would be earmarked for distribution to other worker owned production, etc. How would you assure that you are not just creating a dependency of workers and the poor on a continuous inflow of funds from the treasur(ies)?
Given the fact that Obama is turning the corner and lifting the fulcrum towards World Socialism what immediate and more long range projects would you undertake? In other words, how we can evolve to an intelligent, planned, inclusive, equitable, humane, peaceful, sustainable quality of life for all...
He has seen the light. Instead of investing $30 billion of government funds in GM, which is destined to fail, Barack has promised us thirty billion for the Peoples' Equity Union, with a promise of more (unspecified - but drawn from TARP) to come and the word that he is working with other members of the G20 and the less developed nations to negotiate funding in their regions.
I want each of you to assume a position as Board Member on the Worldwide PEU and as Chair for your local community. What do you suggest that we do with the $30 billion?
Equity means ownership. it also means equality. The Treasuries (eventually to be one unified world treasury) have recognized that the ownership of assets/resources belongs in the hands of the poor and the workers. The Treasuries have decided to undertake a massive program at rebuilding communities so that all have a quality of life and ownership of their abodes and place of work and humane, sustainable occupations and lives. They have recognized that labor and natural resources are the source of all wealth and that there has been a historical record of Capitalist thievery that must be wiped cleaned and atoned for.
What would you offer to the workers and the poor? How would you assure that the $30 billion dollars, and additional funds to come, would be sustained and shared (developed, if you will, to produce a surplus that would be earmarked for distribution to other worker owned production, etc. How would you assure that you are not just creating a dependency of workers and the poor on a continuous inflow of funds from the treasur(ies)?
Given the fact that Obama is turning the corner and lifting the fulcrum towards World Socialism what immediate and more long range projects would you undertake? In other words, how we can evolve to an intelligent, planned, inclusive, equitable, humane, peaceful, sustainable quality of life for all...
Letter to Fred Goldstein (author of "Low Wage Capitalism")
Fred,
Wondering how you are, because I got an invitation to join a subscription group called "My Life" in your name. I didn't join because, they tried to trick me into paying a subscription fee (they were not upfront, portraying it as a free service).
I was excited about the possibility of making the connection with you and extending the socialist network. I understand the dilemma about being a socialist writer who has to function within the dictates of the Capitalist system.
I bought your book (Low-Wage Capitalism) and started reading it. I read the first 30 pages or so... I was very much impressed with your ability to write and think logically and present real world examples and apply Marxist and other socialist thought.
Your book reminded me very much of David Korten's book When Corporations Rule the World which I read about ten years ago. Your book is quite similar, but from a socialist perspective (which I prefer). I have read all of David Korten's sequels, but they are very weak attempts to propose an alternative to the Capitalist (he vilifies Corporations, quite rightly, but not the Capitalist system) system, simply because David is either not a socialist and/or was told that a socialist prescription/alternative would not be acceptable in the Capitalist Press and/or marketplace.
My work since reading all of Kortens' and many many other of the treatises that sneak out of the Capitalist Press under the target market that I would describe as "the disenchanted" or "the "protest segment", has been to try to develop that practical socialist alternative to the genocidal, ecocidal, suicidal Capitalist economic system.
I wrote and self-published a book called Who is George Fox and Why Should I Care? finishing it about twelve years ago (before I read Korten). I was very happy with the end product, but could not get a Capitalist Publisher to put it "on the market". I self-published 250 copies and either sold or gave away all but one, expressly telling all to share my work as widely as possible. I wrote a second book, The Balderloki Shamanism, but admittedly it was a relatively weak follow-up to the first book which I wrote primarily in case the "George Fox" book got published and became popular. The "Balderloki" has been lost to blank empty space and lost diskettes (I've had to move many times), except for that which remains in my brain.
Anyway, that Socialist alternative can be found, in a somewhat yet to be organized layout at my web log http://www.peoplesequityunion.blogspot.com/ . My organizing work, however that manifests itself, is waiting to find a market (and an underwriter if it were to become a book). But publishing a book is not my primary goal. My intention in life is to affect positive socialist change particularly as it concerns equity, inclusion, quality of life, peace, and sustainability in a world that is well past its midnight hour.
How did your book tour go? Whereas, I would hope for a warm reception and a maximum of sales for your work, I sense an increasing irrational madness and a fierce sense of hopelessness about and among the people (and for good reason). I don't sense that socialism has recovered much since the fall of the Soviet Union and the propaganda? of the backsliding of the Peoples' Republic into State Capitalism. I hope that I am wrong and that Fidel, Hugo, WSM, Workers' World Party, and ISO and others that I contact, are not as obscure and perceived as irrelevant and uninterested, as I am afrayed that they are...
I have no illusions that my work to advance a socialist alternative is eutopian (Lewis Mumford explains that such a spelling from the Greek actually means "good place") in a Capitalist world that is approaching outopian ("no place") especially for the progeny.
Anyway, I hope that you are well and that your work is being successful.
Please write when you get the chance.
Wondering how you are, because I got an invitation to join a subscription group called "My Life" in your name. I didn't join because, they tried to trick me into paying a subscription fee (they were not upfront, portraying it as a free service).
I was excited about the possibility of making the connection with you and extending the socialist network. I understand the dilemma about being a socialist writer who has to function within the dictates of the Capitalist system.
I bought your book (Low-Wage Capitalism) and started reading it. I read the first 30 pages or so... I was very much impressed with your ability to write and think logically and present real world examples and apply Marxist and other socialist thought.
Your book reminded me very much of David Korten's book When Corporations Rule the World which I read about ten years ago. Your book is quite similar, but from a socialist perspective (which I prefer). I have read all of David Korten's sequels, but they are very weak attempts to propose an alternative to the Capitalist (he vilifies Corporations, quite rightly, but not the Capitalist system) system, simply because David is either not a socialist and/or was told that a socialist prescription/alternative would not be acceptable in the Capitalist Press and/or marketplace.
My work since reading all of Kortens' and many many other of the treatises that sneak out of the Capitalist Press under the target market that I would describe as "the disenchanted" or "the "protest segment", has been to try to develop that practical socialist alternative to the genocidal, ecocidal, suicidal Capitalist economic system.
I wrote and self-published a book called Who is George Fox and Why Should I Care? finishing it about twelve years ago (before I read Korten). I was very happy with the end product, but could not get a Capitalist Publisher to put it "on the market". I self-published 250 copies and either sold or gave away all but one, expressly telling all to share my work as widely as possible. I wrote a second book, The Balderloki Shamanism, but admittedly it was a relatively weak follow-up to the first book which I wrote primarily in case the "George Fox" book got published and became popular. The "Balderloki" has been lost to blank empty space and lost diskettes (I've had to move many times), except for that which remains in my brain.
Anyway, that Socialist alternative can be found, in a somewhat yet to be organized layout at my web log http://www.peoplesequityunion.blogspot.com/ . My organizing work, however that manifests itself, is waiting to find a market (and an underwriter if it were to become a book). But publishing a book is not my primary goal. My intention in life is to affect positive socialist change particularly as it concerns equity, inclusion, quality of life, peace, and sustainability in a world that is well past its midnight hour.
How did your book tour go? Whereas, I would hope for a warm reception and a maximum of sales for your work, I sense an increasing irrational madness and a fierce sense of hopelessness about and among the people (and for good reason). I don't sense that socialism has recovered much since the fall of the Soviet Union and the propaganda? of the backsliding of the Peoples' Republic into State Capitalism. I hope that I am wrong and that Fidel, Hugo, WSM, Workers' World Party, and ISO and others that I contact, are not as obscure and perceived as irrelevant and uninterested, as I am afrayed that they are...
I have no illusions that my work to advance a socialist alternative is eutopian (Lewis Mumford explains that such a spelling from the Greek actually means "good place") in a Capitalist world that is approaching outopian ("no place") especially for the progeny.
Anyway, I hope that you are well and that your work is being successful.
Please write when you get the chance.
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